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#1 Jan-02-2011 04:00:pm

tree hugger
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Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Taking off topic posts from UELN thread for clarity


http://woodlandindians.org/forums/viewt … 81&p=3

#72 Dec-22-2010 03:59:pm
Tree Beard
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Registered: Oct-08-2010
Posts: 4

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"I have read a lot of interesting things said about UELN on this site. Anyone interested in the truth of the matter may contact me, I have letters to prove everything I say. Our Big Horn Lenape joined with Chief Gray Wolf in the early 1980's. After awhile, especially after his marriage to Cindy Gray Wolf, a lot of trouble ensued with her as the cause. We broke off all relations with the Gray Wolf's at that time and he was dehorned as Head Chief of Our Nation. Then he formed another UELN group with Robert Shrewsbury as Chief and he was dehorned by these people! He had no business forming anything  after being dehorned by Our Council! Our Big Horn Nation was doing all of the UELN applications and paperwork and running all of their dealings with native prisoners before his removal as Head Chief.
     Then, as if this wasn't enough fraudulence, he really started to be involved with a lot of bad eggs, and suckering more people into the UELN, which was actually defunct. My own personal opinion is that anyone in UELN is not bonafide anything! This later UELN/ present organization has been formed by Gray Wolf and others when he was dehorned! Although I do not agree with their validity, I do have some friends in their organization. They need all the help they can get. I say we all need to quit bickering, name calling, slandering(as many have done to me, i.e. calling me "testicles on a stick") We need to work together, and stand each other up well, correcting each other where need be with kind words and good hearts. Our goal should be to bring back Lenape culture, language and spiritual traditions for the future generations. UELN, and others that we may not agree with are not going away. All we can try to do is to correct them when they are wrong.
     In recent years, my name has been pulled through the mud, by Kraft, Whritenour and others. Recently, I have been urged to file lawsuits where need be, and I may yet consider doing so. If you haven't the courage to face me, then  don't speak ill of me and with words that betray your ignorance! Come to one of our Councils and when you spout off as you often do in this Forum, don't be surprised when Grandfather, our Elder & Chief reprimands you and lets the air out of one of your swelled heads. As one of our Elder Women has put it, some of these people who have diarrhea of the mouth need to be taken out behind the woodshed! They need to grow up and learn humility.
     Next time one of you so-called true Lenapes feels the need to bad mouth someone, I challenge you: have some courage, confront the person and show them how it is they are wrong, come down to Earth, maybe present them with facts as you know it.
     A good example is my good brother Bob Ruth "RedHawk". Do many of you know that he is Big Horn  Lenape? I'm looking at his application as I write. You have a problem with him, face him. Quit hiding behind this Internet Forum, thinking you can say anything you wish to and about others. Remember the Old Teaching of Respect!
     I challenge any of you to prove to me that my name, Hitakonanoolaxk/Treebeard, means testicles on a stick! Would you not be just a little angry if you were in my shoes? Second, has anyone ever thought to ask me how I came to be called thus?

                                                                                                      Hitakonanoolaxk/ Treebeard (Medicine Man, Big horn Lenape Nation)

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#2 Jan-02-2011 04:01:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Dec-22-2010 04:14:pm
tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 7647

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Tree Beard wrote:
I have read a lot of interesting things said about UELN on this site. Anyone interested in the truth of the matter may contact me, I have letters to prove everything I say. Our Big Horn Lenape joined with Chief Gray Wolf in the early 1980's. After awhile, especially after his marriage to Cindy Gray Wolf, a lot of trouble ensued with her as the cause. We broke off all relations with the Gray Wolf's at that time and he was dehorned as Head Chief of Our Nation. Then he formed another UELN group with Robert Shrewsbury as Chief and he was dehorned by these people! He had no business forming anything  after being dehorned by Our Council! Our Big Horn Nation was doing all of the UELN applications and paperwork and running all of their dealings with native prisoners before his removal as Head Chief.
     Then, as if this wasn't enough fraudulence, he really started to be involved with a lot of bad eggs, and suckering more people into the UELN, which was actually defunct. My own personal opinion is that anyone in UELN is not bonafide anything! This later UELN/ present organization has been formed by Gray Wolf and others when he was dehorned! Although I do not agree with their validity, I do have some friends in their organization. They need all the help they can get. I say we all need to quit bickering, name calling, slandering(as many have done to me, i.e. calling me "testicles on a stick") We need to work together, and stand each other up well, correcting each other where need be with kind words and good hearts. Our goal should be to bring back Lenape culture, language and spiritual traditions for the future generations. UELN, and others that we may not agree with are not going away. All we can try to do is to correct them when they are wrong.
     In recent years, my name has been pulled through the mud, by Kraft, Whritenour and others. Recently, I have been urged to file lawsuits where need be, and I may yet consider doing so. If you haven't the courage to face me, then  don't speak ill of me and with words that betray your ignorance! Come to one of our Councils and when you spout off as you often do in this Forum, don't be surprised when Grandfather, our Elder & Chief reprimands you and lets the air out of one of your swelled heads. As one of our Elder Women has put it, some of these people who have diarrhea of the mouth need to be taken out behind the woodshed! They need to grow up and learn humility.
     Next time one of you so-called true Lenapes feels the need to bad mouth someone, I challenge you: have some courage, confront the person and show them how it is they are wrong, come down to Earth, maybe present them with facts as you know it.
     A good example is my good brother Bob Ruth "RedHawk". Do many of you know that he is Big Horn  Lenape? I'm looking at his application as I write. You have a problem with him, face him. Quit hiding behind this Internet Forum, thinking you can say anything you wish to and about others. Remember the Old Teaching of Respect!
     I challenge any of you to prove to me that my name, Hitakonanoolaxk/Treebeard, means testicles on a stick! Would you not be just a little angry if you were in my shoes? Second, has anyone ever thought to ask me how I came to be called thus?

                                                                                                      Hitakonanoolaxk/ Treebeard (Medicine Man, Big horn Lenape Nation)

First of all, many of us have dealt with these groups in real life already. Along with the consequences that go along with that. Please do not ASSUME that we are a bunch of people hiding behind the internet. Also do not even begin to tell me or others how to react, when lives have been affected.

This is an extremely typical post from someone that is defensive about the truth coming out. If you have some things you want to say or prove; go right ahead. This forum is open to all.

As for the rest, I or someone else that comes along can address it later.

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#3 Jan-02-2011 04:05:pm

tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 11093

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#74 Dec-22-2010 05:50:pm
oldsalty
Moderator

From: Long way from the Northern Hem
Registered: Dec-01-2006
Posts: 824

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Tree Beard wrote:
I have read a lot of interesting things said about UELN on this site. Anyone interested in the truth of the matter may contact me, I have letters to prove everything I say. Our Big Horn Lenape joined with Chief Gray Wolf in the early 1980's. After awhile, especially after his marriage to Cindy Gray Wolf, a lot of trouble ensued with her as the cause. We broke off all relations with the Gray Wolf's at that time and he was dehorned as Head Chief of Our Nation. Then he formed another UELN group with Robert Shrewsbury as Chief and he was dehorned by these people! He had no business forming anything  after being dehorned by Our Council! Our Big Horn Nation was doing all of the UELN applications and paperwork and running all of their dealings with native prisoners before his removal as Head Chief.
     Then, as if this wasn't enough fraudulence, he really started to be involved with a lot of bad eggs, and suckering more people into the UELN, which was actually defunct. My own personal opinion is that anyone in UELN is not bonafide anything! This later UELN/ present organization has been formed by Gray Wolf and others when he was dehorned! Although I do not agree with their validity, I do have some friends in their organization. They need all the help they can get. I say we all need to quit bickering, name calling, slandering(as many have done to me, i.e. calling me "testicles on a stick") We need to work together, and stand each other up well, correcting each other where need be with kind words and good hearts. Our goal should be to bring back Lenape culture, language and spiritual traditions for the future generations. UELN, and others that we may not agree with are not going away. All we can try to do is to correct them when they are wrong.
     In recent years, my name has been pulled through the mud, by Kraft, Whritenour and others. Recently, I have been urged to file lawsuits where need be, and I may yet consider doing so. If you haven't the courage to face me, then  don't speak ill of me and with words that betray your ignorance! Come to one of our Councils and when you spout off as you often do in this Forum, don't be surprised when Grandfather, our Elder & Chief reprimands you and lets the air out of one of your swelled heads. As one of our Elder Women has put it, some of these people who have diarrhea of the mouth need to be taken out behind the woodshed! They need to grow up and learn humility.
     Next time one of you so-called true Lenapes feels the need to bad mouth someone, I challenge you: have some courage, confront the person and show them how it is they are wrong, come down to Earth, maybe present them with facts as you know it.
     A good example is my good brother Bob Ruth "RedHawk". Do many of you know that he is Big Horn  Lenape? I'm looking at his application as I write. You have a problem with him, face him. Quit hiding behind this Internet Forum, thinking you can say anything you wish to and about others. Remember the Old Teaching of Respect!
     I challenge any of you to prove to me that my name, Hitakonanoolaxk/Treebeard, means testicles on a stick! Would you not be just a little angry if you were in my shoes? Second, has anyone ever thought to ask me how I came to be called thus?

                                                                                                      Hitakonanoolaxk/ Treebeard (Medicine Man, Big horn Lenape Nation)

This is a good place to prove everything you have to say Treebeard with a wide audience that would love to here any claims or proof of legitamacy.This has probably been covered elsewhere but if you are so concerned about what is said here you have an opportunity.
Sure I would be unhappy if anyone called me that so how did you come to be called that?
What is Big Horn Lenape and who is Bob Ruth's Lenape ancestors?
Please present the facts as you know them as I see one of the goals on your UELN website is to become recognised? And by Who?

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#4 Jan-02-2011 04:06:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#75 Dec-22-2010 09:33:pm
Tree Beard
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Registered: Oct-08-2010
Posts: 4
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Old Salty,

     May this find you in a good way!

     I don't need to prove anything, legitamacy or otherwise. I am who I am, of the Big Horn Lenape People, and of Lenape, Mohican and either Wampanoag/Narrangasset ancestry. I am well known by many Lenape. Suckachsinheet knows me.
     Respectfully, who are you and who are your People? I have never heard of you either, but I do not ask for your legitamacy, I will accept you for who and what you say you are, until I am shown otherwise with my own eyes or your actions. You remind me of my Uncle Clarence, who was one of the last to speak old Unami, though in garbled form and not fluently.
     My name Hitakonanoolaxk "Treebeard" is my public name, and though it may not be gramatically correct, it has been with me a long time and I will continue to use it; hitak "tree"  and onanoolaxk was held to mean "beard" by one of our old Chiefs in a Oklahoma dialect; probably from weetoonay and meelaxk. In Herbert Kraft's "The Lenape-Delaware Heritage", 2 pages are wasted on total misinformation about me, which I consider total slander and may be the subject of a future lawsuit. Some apparently ego inflated, name bashing nimrod translated my name as "testicles on a stick"! Am I mad? You bet! So are many People who know me.
     The Big horn Lenape have been around since the early 1980's, started by people of Lenape/ Algonquin descent. Anybody who attends Pennsylvania Powwows must know our Elder Chief,Tamakwanaxk, "Beaverhand"/ Eugene Hodge and his wife Rain Woman.
     I don't know who Bob Ruth's Lenape ancestors were, but I do not doubt him. I have known Bob for 25 or so years.
     You have the misconception that we are UELN. We never have been exactly, closely affiliated yes, but not since about 1990.
     Our Big Horn Lenape do not seek recognition. We are recognized by new York State  and we have a letter from Gov. Pataki that shows this. We have been involved with EDN and Onondaga in fighting development of burioal grounds. We have saved many sites in the Chemung, Susquehanna River valleys and with the help of concerned citizens we remain ever vigilant in keeping an eye out to protect these.

                                                                                                    Wawulleemileseel! Hitakonanolaxk "Treebeard"

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#5 Jan-02-2011 04:08:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#76 Dec-22-2010 10:00:pm
tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 7651

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Tree Beard wrote:
Old Salty,

     May this find you in a good way!

     I don't need to prove anything, legitamacy or otherwise. I am who I am, of the Big Horn Lenape People, and of Lenape, Mohican and either Wampanoag/Narrangasset ancestry. I am well known by many Lenape. Suckachsinheet knows me.
     Respectfully, who are you and who are your People? I have never heard of you either, but I do not ask for your legitamacy, I will accept you for who and what you say you are, until I am shown otherwise with my own eyes or your actions. You remind me of my Uncle Clarence, who was one of the last to speak old Unami, though in garbled form and not fluently.
     My name Hitakonanoolaxk "Treebeard" is my public name, and though it may not be gramatically correct, it has been with me a long time and I will continue to use it; hitak "tree"  and onanoolaxk was held to mean "beard" by one of our old Chiefs in a Oklahoma dialect; probably from weetoonay and meelaxk. In Herbert Kraft's "The Lenape-Delaware Heritage", 2 pages are wasted on total misinformation about me, which I consider total slander and may be the subject of a future lawsuit. Some apparently ego inflated, name bashing nimrod translated my name as "testicles on a stick"! Am I mad? You bet! So are many People who know me.
     The Big horn Lenape have been around since the early 1980's, started by people of Lenape/ Algonquin descent. Anybody who attends Pennsylvania Powwows must know our Elder Chief,Tamakwanaxk, "Beaverhand"/ Eugene Hodge and his wife Rain Woman.
     I don't know who Bob Ruth's Lenape ancestors were, but I do not doubt him. I have known Bob for 25 or so years.
     You have the misconception that we are UELN. We never have been exactly, closely affiliated yes, but not since about 1990.
     Our Big Horn Lenape do not seek recognition. We are recognized by new York State  and we have a letter from Gov. Pataki that shows this. We have been involved with EDN and Onondaga in fighting development of burioal grounds. We have saved many sites in the Chemung, Susquehanna River valleys and with the help of concerned citizens we remain ever vigilant in keeping an eye out to protect these.

                                                                                                    Wawulleemileseel! Hitakonanolaxk "Treebeard"

2 pages are wasted on total misinformation about me, which I consider total slander and may be the subject of a future lawsuit.

First of all you want to throw out threats of legal actions, I welcome it. See when you take things to court you have to prove your claims. Which has never happened since I've been doing this. You would need to prove your ancestry and lineage as a claim to being Indian, just as anyone else would.

I realize that you are new to the internet, but what you have seen here is mild. A public forum is just that a public venue to express opinions.

The UELN is not, nor have they ever been an Indian community, Nation, tribe or affiliated with any recognized Nation. At best they are a hobbyist group.

I would like to suggest that you try the NAFPS forum, I am sure they would be open to your ideals.

Here's a link for you http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/

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#6 Jan-02-2011 04:10:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11093

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#77 Dec-22-2010 10:58:pm
oldsalty
Moderator

From: Long way from the Northern Hem
Registered: Dec-01-2006
Posts: 824

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Tree Beard wrote:
Old Salty,

     May this find you in a good way!

     I don't need to prove anything, legitamacy or otherwise. I am who I am, of the Big Horn Lenape People, and of Lenape, Mohican and either Wampanoag/Narrangasset ancestry. I am well known by many Lenape. Suckachsinheet knows me.
     Respectfully, who are you and who are your People? I have never heard of you either, but I do not ask for your legitamacy, I will accept you for who and what you say you are, until I am shown otherwise with my own eyes or your actions. You remind me of my Uncle Clarence, who was one of the last to speak old Unami, though in garbled form and not fluently.
     My name Hitakonanoolaxk "Treebeard" is my public name, and though it may not be gramatically correct, it has been with me a long time and I will continue to use it; hitak "tree"  and onanoolaxk was held to mean "beard" by one of our old Chiefs in a Oklahoma dialect; probably from weetoonay and meelaxk. In Herbert Kraft's "The Lenape-Delaware Heritage", 2 pages are wasted on total misinformation about me, which I consider total slander and may be the subject of a future lawsuit. Some apparently ego inflated, name bashing nimrod translated my name as "testicles on a stick"! Am I mad? You bet! So are many People who know me.
     The Big horn Lenape have been around since the early 1980's, started by people of Lenape/ Algonquin descent. Anybody who attends Pennsylvania Powwows must know our Elder Chief,Tamakwanaxk, "Beaverhand"/ Eugene Hodge and his wife Rain Woman.
     I don't know who Bob Ruth's Lenape ancestors were, but I do not doubt him. I have known Bob for 25 or so years.
     You have the misconception that we are UELN. We never have been exactly, closely affiliated yes, but not since about 1990.
     Our Big Horn Lenape do not seek recognition. We are recognized by new York State  and we have a letter from Gov. Pataki that shows this. We have been involved with EDN and Onondaga in fighting development of burioal grounds. We have saved many sites in the Chemung, Susquehanna River valleys and with the help of concerned citizens we remain ever vigilant in keeping an eye out to protect these.

                                                                                                    Wawulleemileseel! Hitakonanolaxk "Treebeard"

Lets just say I am fifth generation Australian with French Canadian ancestry (French Canadian Indian as my grandfather told us).My ancestors fought alongside Tecumseh and Joseph Brant and had a long and friendly relationship with the Munsee Delaware.

Suckachsinheet does not claim Lenape and he may correct me if I am wrong.

I have Herbert C Crafts the Lenape-Delaware Indian Heritage in front of me Pages 565 and 566 to be precise. He gives a very good case and many references towards other works that could be easily copied by anyone.

I will not comment on anyones name even if the circumstances are questionable.I too was given a name but my interpretation of the circumstances is it is a nickname that I share with only my closest friends.

Big Horn Lenape are not recognised by the State of New York and a claim such as this would be found on the official New York State site which it is not.

In summary my interest here has evolved from researching not only the Lenape but also Shawnee,Ojibwa, Miami, Haudenosaunee, Mohican, Narrangasset and other Eastern Woodlands. Over ten years I have become painfully aware of the amount of misinformation out there that has been a result of hobbyist groups and frauds.
For the legitimate and recognised bands and nations they are well documented and imprinted with history and public accessible information.
For this reason I find it very questionable that you offer no historical background information prior to 1980.

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#7 Jan-02-2011 04:11:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11093

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#78 Dec-23-2010 06:18:pm
Tokipahkinao
Member
Registered: Jul-22-2008
Posts: 212
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"HE! Old Salty,

                               You Rock, friend!  I remember Treebeard . . . . . . . . . . . .


                                                     Best Wishes and Happy Holidays,

                                                                Love,  MaryEllen

                                                                        Tokipahkinao

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#8 Jan-02-2011 04:11:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11093

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Dec-24-2010 02:18:pm
happyhare
Visitor
Registered: Dec-24-2010
Posts: 3
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Speaking as an Elder, and Lenape woman:

     I am one of Treebeard's aunts.  You need to  get to know Treebeard face to face, and quit slamming this fine man. If everything that you people wish to view as truth, Kraft & other non-Lenape mouths, even Moravian Missionaries, then you have a lot to learn I am afraid. Instead of bashing us Big Horn people, why don't you offer to help us with the language, as was spoken somewhat by my brother, Clarence. I don't seem to be able to find Whritenour's lessons. What are these, secret? I wish I had paid more attention to my father, James Chamberlain, from Susquehanna Pennsylvania, but life was rough back then, too much to do just to survive, especially during the depression. He knew the language quite well, and all of the names of herbs and plants , we never had to go to the doctor's. But I don't expect you know-it-alls to listen to this old woman, even though I am to die soon. My brother Lawrence will be the last of my generation. I only ask you to consider my words and I am wishing you all well!

        In Gentleness there is Great Strength! Be kind, be respectful! That is all that I ask. Kenamo!

                                                                                                                    Happy Hare Woman

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#9 Jan-02-2011 04:13:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11093

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#80 Dec-24-2010 03:11:pm
tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 7651

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"happyhare wrote:
Speaking as an Elder, and Lenape woman:

     I am one of Treebeard's aunts.  You need to  get to know Treebeard face to face, and quit slamming this fine man. If everything that you people wish to view as truth, Kraft & other non-Lenape mouths, even Moravian Missionaries, then you have a lot to learn I am afraid. Instead of bashing us Big Horn people, why don't you offer to help us with the language, as was spoken somewhat by my brother, Clarence. I don't seem to be able to find Whritenour's lessons. What are these, secret? I wish I had paid more attention to my father, James Chamberlain, from Susquehanna Pennsylvania, but life was rough back then, too much to do just to survive, especially during the depression. He knew the language quite well, and all of the names of herbs and plants , we never had to go to the doctor's. But I don't expect you know-it-alls to listen to this old woman, even though I am to die soon. My brother Lawrence will be the last of my generation. I only ask you to consider my words and I am wishing you all well!

        In Gentleness there is Great Strength! Be kind, be respectful! That is all that I ask. Kenamo!

                                                                                                                    Happy Hare Woman

Well Hello. Do all of you have a handbook you use? Demanding, arrogant, accusatory, threatening..did I miss anything?

Now you've joined here and let's make it akin to walking in to a strangers house. Now let me give you some examples.


Hello I am______ I found this forum and would like to address some things that are mentioned about__________. I am from________. I don't agree with___________. I would like to learn more about the language, help would be appreciated if you could direct me toward_______________. The things I find most troubling about what was said__________. I hope that we can have an educational, mutually benefical dialogue about______________.

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#10 Jan-02-2011 04:14:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#81 Dec-24-2010 03:35:pm
tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 7651
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Oh dear, after closer inspection either Tree Beards aunt is sitting at his computer at this very moment or it's sock puppet time. Must be another rule in that handbook.

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#11 Jan-02-2011 04:16:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11093

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#82 Dec-26-2010 09:14:pm
happyhare
Visitor
Registered: Dec-24-2010
Posts: 3
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Treebugger,

     I was using my computer before, but I am using Treebeard's computer now, as I am at his house and in his office. Sock puppet time? Calling me demeaning, arrogant, accusatory, and threatening? You'd best look in the mirror young man! Any one with any intelligence can see how rediculously intimidating and sarcastic you are. Hopefully, someday, you will learn humility, respect and decency. Do not you understand English? Evidently not, as you sure didn't understand anything that I wrote last. Are you a traditional native? Must be not or you wouldn't be talking to this Elder as you do. One thing is for sure, keep up with actions such as this and you will not have any respect!
     I will not be contacting this forum anymore as I can see it is a waste of my time, and at 86 I don't have the time left to waste. Hopefully sensible People reading this(if you let it be seen), will see you for what you are and not waste their time either. It is too bad, because this forum could be a great and good thing, but you need to listen to the thoughts of others and quit being so demeaning, and aggressively intimidating - down right mean.

                                                                                    Xoo lupee knaawul! Happy Hare Woman

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#12 Jan-02-2011 04:17:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11093

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Dec-27-2010 04:57:am
oldsalty
Moderator

From: Long way from the Northern Hem
Registered: Dec-01-2006
Posts: 824

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"happyhare wrote:
Treebugger,

     I was using my computer before, but I am using Treebeard's computer now, as I am at his house and in his office. Sock puppet time? Calling me demeaning, arrogant, accusatory, and threatening? You'd best look in the mirror young man! Any one with any intelligence can see how rediculously intimidating and sarcastic you are. Hopefully, someday, you will learn humility, respect and decency. Do not you understand English? Evidently not, as you sure didn't understand anything that I wrote last. Are you a traditional native? Must be not or you wouldn't be talking to this Elder as you do. One thing is for sure, keep up with actions such as this and you will not have any respect!
     I will not be contacting this forum anymore as I can see it is a waste of my time, and at 86 I don't have the time left to waste. Hopefully sensible People reading this(if you let it be seen), will see you for what you are and not waste their time either. It is too bad, because this forum could be a great and good thing, but you need to listen to the thoughts of others and quit being so demeaning, and aggressively intimidating - down right mean.

                                                                                    Xoo lupee knaawul! Happy Hare Woman

To Tree Beard or Happy Hare Woman
I want to hear more about the Big Horn Lenape. So far I have only seen 1980 mentioned and people of Lenape Algonquin descent mentioned.
To come here to this forum does require legitimacy and proof especially with such claims that have already been addressed by academics.You dont like what has been said but you offer nothing in defense.
Where is the continuous tie and history to Chemung that warrants the creation of a band.
It would take some extensive research to prove or disprove these claims so I imagine that you would have all this research!!
Why not provide something substantial here if this is of such importance personally but more importantly historically.
I believe that I have been respectfull with my comments and questions and provided you with an opportunity.
Old Salty

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#13 Jan-02-2011 04:19:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#84 Dec-27-2010 08:30:am
tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 7651

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"happyhare wrote:
Treebugger,

     I was using my computer before, but I am using Treebeard's computer now, as I am at his house and in his office. Sock puppet time? Calling me demeaning, arrogant, accusatory, and threatening? You'd best look in the mirror young man! Any one with any intelligence can see how rediculously intimidating and sarcastic you are. Hopefully, someday, you will learn humility, respect and decency. Do not you understand English? Evidently not, as you sure didn't understand anything that I wrote last. Are you a traditional native? Must be not or you wouldn't be talking to this Elder as you do. One thing is for sure, keep up with actions such as this and you will not have any respect!
     I will not be contacting this forum anymore as I can see it is a waste of my time, and at 86 I don't have the time left to waste. Hopefully sensible People reading this(if you let it be seen), will see you for what you are and not waste their time either. It is too bad, because this forum could be a great and good thing, but you need to listen to the thoughts of others and quit being so demeaning, and aggressively intimidating - down right mean.

                                                                                    Xoo lupee knaawul! Happy Hare Woman

I don't need to pick this apart, you have already done so yourself. As Oldsalty said why not prove what you say is true?

As you probably don't realize I can see your activity through stats, you have never logged in here from another computer. I watched as Treebeard forgot his password, only to eventually reregister under this name.  I do respect elders, my own and ones that are real.

I am sorry if you found me intimidating, well not really, but please do offer your proof to the general public reading here. Prove me wrong.

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#14 Jan-02-2011 04:20:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#85 Dec-29-2010 01:29:am
sschkaak
Member

Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 1511
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Folks:  I've been dealing with a personal matter, of late, and haven't had a chance to comment on the latest posts in this thread.  Nevertheless, since my name has been mentioned twice, above, I think I should, at least, let everyone know that Treebeard and I debated the merits, or lack thereof, of his literary production, during February and March of 2004, on a different forum.  I stand by the comments I made at that time, and by my critical review of his book, which can be found here, at this forum:  http://woodlandindians.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=7201 .

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#15 Jan-02-2011 04:20:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#86 Dec-29-2010 04:33:am
oldsalty
Moderator

From: Long way from the Northern Hem
Registered: Dec-01-2006
Posts: 824
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Thankyou for referring us to your previous critical review and your knowledge on the subject sschkaak!!Good to see you back.

Edited to add I found this an interesting statement also at the following site.

http://www.destinykinal.com/metis.html

Treebeard's forebearers passed down the memory of standing above the broad alluvial valley on Queen Esther's Glen, at the confluence of the Chemung and Susquehanna Rivers called Carantouan, watching the blue serpent, the long line of uniformed soldiers, destroy their homes and crops.

Last edited by oldsalty (Dec-29-2010 04:52:am)

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#16 Jan-02-2011 04:22:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#87 Dec-30-2010 12:27:am
Suckachsinheet
Member

Registered: Sep-12-2007
Posts: 399

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"tree hugger wrote:

happyhare wrote:
You'd best look in the mirror young man!

I do respect elders, my own and ones that are real.

But did you look in the mirror, young man? Treebugger?

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#17 Jan-02-2011 04:22:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Dec-30-2010 02:35:pm
happyhare
Visitor
Registered: Dec-24-2010
Posts: 3
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"To All,

     I am logging in with Happy Hare's login, as I can't seem to get in on what I thought I remembered as my own. All this computer stuff, login, logout is new to me, so please forgive my ignorance.
     Old Salty,
                    I see you as the most respectful on this site, so I will start in answer to your words.
     Suckachsinheet may not be Lenape, but he knows of me and I remember correspondence with him long ago. I will not get into a rebuttal of Kraft's words about me at this time. That would be lengthy, someday as I have time.
     Our Big Horn Lenape, though not on the official List of New York State, we have many letters, one from Gov.Pataki, and others from DEC officials, recognizing us and addressing us as Big Horn Lenape Council Chiefs, as we have been involved in numerous fights to protect burial grounds from development.
Chief Paul Waterman(now deceased), as well as EDN, and other Lenape groups from Indiana and PA have helped us in some of these cases.
     As In have stated before, Our Big Horn Lenape Tribe was formed in around 1980 by Lenape and other Algonquin  descendant People. To come to your forum requires legitamacy? What? The legitamacy as long as we tow line to your views? Who has authorized you folks as Absolute authorities? because I can guarantee you people do not know as much as you think you do! We are just as legitimate as any Federally recognized Tribe, as they too are only beginning to follow and relearn their Lenape Ancestral Traditions! I have been learning my Lenape traditions since I was young, from members of my family who remembered such things. I have no idea of my exact blood quantum, which is at least 5/16 to 3/8, but it is more than many of the Delaware Tribe of Oklahoma. My whole life I have been told that I was, and have seen myself as Lenape. Who are you to question my legitamacy?
     The tie to Chemung? Some of my ancestors were there when Sullivan came through and stories of that have been handed down. I lived there until recently.
     How do you expect anyone to prove themselves when their ancestors never went on a reservation? All I can tell you is that there was a group of my family that settled in Susquehanna circa 1830. My one Great Great Grandmother married William Campfield, a Scottish descent surveyor; the Chamberlain's, also of Native descent came into the picture later, but there were also Native descent People by the names of Carr, Clapper, Densmore & Horton, etc. All we have to go by is oral tradition, stories, and pictures of my family tell all! My family considered themselves to be Native and were always proud of the fact! My Great Great Grandmother Campfield, she had no maiden name, she was known as Tonnia or Tawny. I know there are Chamberlins in Oklahoma of Lenape descent and I know that we may have Mohican relatives by the name of Koonakpot(or something like that). Our Chief, Eugene Hodge, was adopted by some relatives of a Great Uncle of mine, and they were aware of their Lenape ancestry.
     Yes, Destiny Kinal is a friend of Our People. She helped us with a big burial ground fight that we eventually won. We recently gave a talk at Sheshequin on Queen Esther. She is in error though saying my ancestors watched Sullivans march at Carantouan/Spanish Hill; it was at Bear Mountain near what is called Queen Esther's Glen.
     To Treehugger:
                             Yes, my aunt, Happy Hare originally logged into this forum on her Toshiba computer, mine is on a HP. Yes, I did forget my password - forgot to write it down. Tried several combos but couldn't get anything to work; thought you people cut me out of this forum.
      Oh, my aunt is real enough! She is not me, nor I her!
      Sorry if my aunt called you Treebugger, but I feel you showed her much disrespect and I know she was quite upset. She's 86 for goodness sake, give her a break! Put yourself in her shoes, would you not be upset?
     Mr. Whritenour:     I never debated anything directly with you, but through other people, secondhand! I did not have a computer at the time. Since then, many of these people who at that time were supportive of you and disrespectful of me, they have since apologized to me. I don't know what eventually happened, but you seemed to have angered them somehow.
    Your criticism of my book, while demeaning in the extreme, is correct in some instances concerning the language, but when a language is near extinct, and not used in everyday conversation, errors do occur. Elders remembered what they could, often in error, especially in attempting Lenape translation of English equivalents. I do not doubt the truth of what they related to me because of the similarities and distances involved, from Wisconsin, to Ohio, to Canada and Pennsylvania.
     Suckachsinheet:    My aunt said, "look in the mirror'. It was not I. I have no quarrel with you brother, so I ask, do not get one started between us!

     I too will not waste my time withthis forum, except later to correct Kraft's errors about me in his book. Contrary to loose lips, demeaning words, and too many Mr. Big Heads, who use this forum to give some meaning to their lives, thinking that makes them some Authority; I decline to get involved, and will keep on doing what I have been doing for thirty years or so, working with my People to teach our traditions so that they may live through our future generations.
Enough said!                                                                  Treebeard/Hitakonanoolaxk

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#18 Jan-02-2011 04:24:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#91 Dec-30-2010 03:38:pm
sschkaak
Member

Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 1511
Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Treebeard:

I responded to your letters, at that forum, and you responded to my forum posts.  I call that a debate.

There is no need for you to rebut the late Herbert Kraft, since Kraft never wrote anything about you.  That final chapter of Kraft's book, which mentions you, was written by Dr. David Oestreicher.  So far as the "testicles on a stick" thing is concerned, nobody ever said your name meant that.  One Lenape speaker, on seeing your name, said the elements of the name suggested those words, but that such a construction would be impossible.  For my own part, it seems evident that your name was an attempt to combine the forms hitukw + -anano- + -ilaxk ('tree-cheek-hair'), but, done improperly and unnecessarily.

So far as "Big Heads" goes:  Nobody, here, has started his own tribe (with or without Sam Hannah's instigation) and appointed himself the great holy man of that tribe.  Maybe, it's time you looked in a mirror.  If you find anything anyone has said, in this forum, to be incorrect, feel free to point out their errors, instead of calling them "Big Heads."  I suspect, however, that name-calling is the highest form of criticism you can muster.  This isn't your "tribe."  Nobody's going to bow down and kiss your ring, here.  If you've got anything worthwhile to contribute, it will be welcome.  If not, it won't.  We'll let you know, either way.

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#19 Jan-02-2011 04:25:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#92 Dec-30-2010 04:18:pm
tree hugger
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Registered: May-12-2006
Posts: 7651

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"Sigh, I suppose I should address the comments to me.



To Treehugger:
                             Yes, my aunt, Happy Hare originally logged into this forum on her Toshiba computer, mine is on a HP. Yes, I did forget my password - forgot to write it down. Tried several combos but couldn't get anything to work; thought you people cut me out of this forum.
      Oh, my aunt is real enough! She is not me, nor I her!
      Sorry if my aunt called you Treebugger, but I feel you showed her much disrespect and I know she was quite upset. She's 86 for goodness sake, give her a break! Put yourself in her shoes, would you not be upset?

1. I will concede that you are new at computers so you probably don't realize what a 'geek' like me can see. I watched (and have proof saved) of you on here, then reregistering as 'happy hare'. This occured at 24th December 2010 01:53:33 PM . Now you had also checked out the Mulitple accounts thread quite a few times before doing this. This was all done from the same computer.  I would also like to invite the readers to take a closer look at Happy Hare woman and Tree Beards typing, formating, and spelling similarities. Coincidence?

2. Let's for a moment say this is your aunt, for arguments sake. Why on earth would I have respect for someone I don't know coming in here with statements like



You need to  get to know Treebeard face to face, and quit slamming this fine man. If everything that you people wish to view as truth, Kraft & other non-Lenape mouths, even Moravian Missionaries, then you have a lot to learn I am afraid.

You'd best look in the mirror young man! Any one with any intelligence can see how rediculously intimidating and sarcastic you are. Hopefully, someday, you will learn humility, respect and decency.

3. You have done nothing, so far to prove anything said here is wrong. Which in a previous post you had said some posts were cause for a law suit. Once again I welcome it, the burden of proof is on you. I certainly welcome any proof that we are wrong.

4. I'm a woman!! If you'd have taken the time to even read here instead of being so egocentric and 'all poweful' you would have figured that out.

5. Treebugger was actually funny. See some of us have a sense of humor.

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#20 Jan-02-2011 04:26:pm

tree hugger
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Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

#93 Dec-30-2010 07:41:pm
Suckachsinheet
Member

Registered: Sep-12-2007
Posts: 399

Re: "United Eastern Lenape Nation"happyhare wrote:
Suckachsinheet:    My aunt said, "look in the mirror'. It was not I. I have no quarrel with you brother, so I ask, do not get one started between us!

No quarrel intended. That was actually intended to elicit a chuckle from Tree hugger, because of her gender. As she said, we do have a sense of humor here.

For the sake of reiteration and clarification, I do not claim Lenape ancestry. Neither my wife nor I can muster anything more than family oral history assertions of our Native ancestry. But since shortly after we began to explore Pam's Native heritage we have "camped" alongside the Lenape because that was the best "entry point" we had available to us. And since then we have put significant effort into learning the culture and language of the Lenape, since that is where we have been "living" for the last 15 years or so. My personal ancestry aside, that does not affect whether I know Treebeard or what I know about him. I have known him for over a decade and have spent time hearing what he has to say.

Nevertheless, on this forum, family oral histories don't count for much. "Legitimacy" is pretty much a blood quantum issue here. Membership in a group of people who have a demonstrable continuous history of hundreds of years. And that blurs over into the authenticity of your "traditions", when you set forth to present them as authentic. Traditions that don't line up with those documented by recognized authorities and primary source materials (such as Moravian missionaries, who were eyewitnesses to Lenape culture closer to pre-contact than almost any other written accounts) are certain to be regarded as suspect until proven to be authentic. Those are pretty much the standards we work off of around here.

I hang around here to learn from the discussions. Occasionally I have enough life experience to contribute to the discussions. As often as not, I find that I don't know as much as I thought I did. To paraphrase an old Lynard Skynard tune: "I know a little 'bout Lenape, but I've stopped trying to guess the rest".

Last edited by Suckachsinheet (Dec-31-2010 08:54:am)

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#21 Jan-02-2011 04:28:pm

tree hugger
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Posts: 11093

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Folks, I've done the best I can to copy pertinent posts to this new thread. However, I've decided to leave the original posts stand in the UELN thread. I've seen attempts to say posts were altered or misquoted, when doing something like this. So now we have a place to keep it on topic.

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#22 Jul-13-2011 03:33:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
Website

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Saturday July 16th, 2011 - 2-4:30 pm - Meet the Authors Program: Writing the Delaware

A diverse group of writers and storytellers offer readings and describe how history and folklore inspire their work. Panelists include Destiny Kinal, author of the historical novel, Burning Silk (set in part in Bucks County); Katherine Ashe, award-winning playwright, author and composer of "Martha Speaks Up," a theatrical script for actress Celeste Holm; and Hitakonanu'Laxk, Lenape poet, storyteller and author of The Grandfathers Speak. Books available in the Mercer Shop. Author signing follows the program. $20/$15 members. Registration required, call 215 345-0210, ext. 123.

www.mercermuseum.org  (Calendar of Events)

Last edited by sschkaak (Nov-24-2017 05:48:pm)

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#23 Jul-14-2011 08:08:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4342
Website

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

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#24 Jul-14-2011 10:57:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Odd. His vision is supposed to bind him to the land around Chemung and preclude his traveling. At least, it always has in the past...


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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#25 Jul-25-2011 11:11:pm

Suckachsinheet
Member
Registered: Sep-11-2007
Posts: 968

Re: Big Horn Lenape/Tree Beard

Suckachsinheet wrote:

Odd. His vision is supposed to bind him to the land around Chemung and preclude his traveling. At least, it always has in the past...

Since he says he could not access the site to reply himself, I will provide the explanation he sent to me personally via e-mail:

"My vision it is true, is to not travel around the country seeking fame and fortune as a medicine person, but to stay put; that is to teach and do my medicine work here. I went to Doylestown at the request of my good friend, Destiny Kinal, to whom we owe a great debt; without her help we never would have prevented a trailer park from being built on burial grounds."

I believe I recall that debacle about the trailer park. If I remember correctly, Bill Lazore (Onondaga) and Jack "Many Colors" Dillman (Muskogee/Creek) were involve in that as well.


It's in the blood; I can't let go. - Robbie Robertson

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