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#26 Nov-06-2010 04:10:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
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Re: Are the Munsee "Lenape"?

sschkaak wrote:

I have only a hardcopy of that census, and I don't know whether or not it appears online, somewhere.  If I get a chance, someday, I'll scan it and post it on a separate thread.

Here it is:   http://woodlandindians.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=8516

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#27 Dec-07-2010 08:56:pm

lenape_eela
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Registered: Aug-26-2010
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Re: Are the Munsee "Lenape"?

hey i totally forgot that i noticed something awhile back in my own community that leads me to believe that munsee and lenape are not the same, they have their differences. i know a family of full blood lenapes and when one of their own died they painted their burial marker with different symbols other than what is now used only by traditional lenape families.. when asked , we were told that thier mother or grandmother was of munsee decent..so i think thats why they painted earth paint on their markers differently.

i honestly cant believe i forgot this info. so it seems that we still do have munsee ways practiced here among lenape peole around the rose hill area. near copan/dewey oklahoma.

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#28 Dec-07-2010 09:26:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Are the Munsee "Lenape"?

Levi:

It all depends on whether you're a "lumper" or a "splitter."  I call the Munsee, "Lenape," because that's what they call themselves, in their own language--just as your folks do.  They spell it with their own system (lunaapeew or lunaapee), but, it's pronounced the same.  So, I call people "Lenape" who call themselves that. 

"Lumpers" (like me) see, for instance, the Big House, as very similar in both Munsee and Unami communities, and having a common origin.  They both use a Big House, they both use a turtle-shell rattle in the Big House, and they both use an evergreen purification material.  "Splitters" point out that, while this is true, the Munsee use the shell of a painted turtle, and the Unami use that of a box turtle; the Munsee use hemlock to purify the Big House, and the Unami use red cedar.  Their respective deerhide drums are put together a little differently.  So, "lumpers" see the bigger similarities, while "splitters" see the differences. 

Munsee and Unami are both "Lenape," but that doesn't mean they're exactly the same.  (At least, this is how I view things.)

Last edited by sschkaak (Dec-07-2010 09:27:pm)

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#29 Dec-08-2010 01:11:am

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: Are the Munsee "Lenape"?

That's what I was thinking, that they are Lenape because they call themselves Lenape.

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#30 Jan-09-2011 02:34:am

Pushies
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From: Dewey, Oklahoma
Registered: Sep-18-2010
Posts: 7
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Re: Are the Munsee "Lenape"?

To anyone that will listen:

In the sixties, we the Delaware Indians of Eastern Oklahoma went to court and declared the Munsi are not a part of our group. The Department of the Interior accepted our claim and the Munsi were not included in any per cap payments for lands in Kansas.

Yes, our language is similar, as are the languages of Athabascan, Hupa and Navajo. Comanche and Aztec share a common thread with each other also.

I am a direct descendant of Pushies brother of Swanuck. I am a full blood.  These two boys were BROUGHT to the first marriage of Chief William Anderson by his prospective wife. There is no blood connection to him and my family.  The same thing happened with his second wife. She BROUGHT two boys and a girl to the marriage. Later on there were children born to this marriage. 

When the mother of Pushies and Swannuck picked up her babies and left Chief Anderson and he did not go with her is culturally wrong. That is why I have researched and determined the adoption view that is documented. My grandmother, born 1888 had always maintained the Munsi followed us to Kansas and were not a part of our group.  We do have marriages that have occurred but that is as far as it goes.

Levi is correct in saying there are definite differences here in Oklahoma. Naka suki temakwea' (now deceased Black Beaver) was a relative on my mother's side. When my grandmother passed on there were no more members of her family line living except for my few relatives.  My mother and one remaining aunt asked me if I would take the name of my grandmothers family when I was named. I agreed. Temakwe - Beaver. I have four brothers and one sister who has passed on. I am one of the youngest of the family, 64 years old. These things have been passed on through my family and I only want to share them with whoever will listen.  I do have many recordings of my grandmother speaking in our language telling stories of how the clans were formed and many other interesting subjects.
Thank you all for your concern and discussion, I consider the Munsi as our brothers forever. If you have questions please let me know and I will share whatever I know.
Pushies is my great, great grandfather.

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#31 Jan-09-2011 08:09:am

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4309
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Re: Are the Munsee "Lenape"?

Thanks for your thoughts and information on the subject; and your offer to answer questions.

Last edited by sschkaak (Jan-09-2011 09:31:am)

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#32 Sep-28-2011 06:38:pm

Chevy
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Registered: Aug-01-2007
Posts: 1577

Re: Are the Munsee "Lenape"?

Yes, thank you Pushies.

Not all of this book is online, but some of it is, with sources listed . Pg. 84 & 85 + Stockbridge, Munsees, & Delaware relationship

Potawatomis, Delawares, And Indian Removal In The Great Lakes begins on pg. 53

Exiles and pioneers: eastern Indians in the Trans-Mississippi West By John P. Bowes

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZNXhUi … mp;f=false

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