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#1 Jun-01-2018 09:39:am

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Short Honor Song Translation Help

Hello,

I'm trying to translate the words of a Mi'kmaq honor song into Lenape. The song itself has been translated into all six of the northern New England languages (inclusive of Mi'kmaq).

I'm just curious if a working translation could be done for other related languages. By 'working translation', I mean one that would fit the music.

Either NU or SU would be great - I think I could get the SU from a NU version.

There are a few different English 'back translations' that are used in a few places - I suspect just a different way to word it to make the text fit the musical phrasing.

Anyway, I thought I'd post the English versions and take a stab at it (SU) slow but sure - corrections would be most appreciated; I'm pretty sure this will need some help smile

Let us honor the way our people are / let us think great the way our people are / Let us greatly respect our native ways.

My people, let us gather/unite.

Let us (greatly) honor our (historical) roots/ancestral ways.

My people, let us help one another.

Let us help one another according to the Creator's intention for putting us on this earth / Let us help one another the way our Creator has placed us here upon the earth.


Okay - here's a really rough stab at a few parts from the first few lines....

maxelëmatäm - let us honor

Nithäkeyok - my fellow tribesmen

maehëlanèn - to gether. I suspect it will need to end in -täm, but not sure where the root is to add the imperative suffix.

nëchëphikëna - our roots

I'll try and have more later.

Some of the phrases are repetitive, so that kind of helps.

Thanks very much!!

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#2 Jun-01-2018 09:40:am

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Hmm...the funny symbol is the accented 'a'. Not sure why it didn't "print".

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#3 Jun-01-2018 03:02:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Kavik wrote:

Hmm...the funny symbol is the accented 'a'. Not sure why it didn't "print".

We've been having some trouble with certain markings on the forum ever since they did some kind of overhaul on it.

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#4 Jun-01-2018 03:04:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

I guess I'd translate this honor song something like this:

Let us honor the way our people are / let us think great the way our people are / Let us greatly respect our native ways.
Machelematamook elissijenk / Mechi litehatamook elissijenk / Mechi ahoatamatamook ndellauchsowoaganenna. 
Let-us-honor-it how-we-are / Greatly let-us-think how-we-are / Greatly let-us-esteem-it our-way-of-life.

My people, let us gather/unite.
Ndellennapewak, mawewittamook / majauwittamook 
My-Delaware-Indians, let-us-assemble / let-us-be-one

Let us (greatly) honor our (historical) roots/ancestral ways.
Mechi machelematamook wdellauchsowoaganowak n’mechomsennaninga
Greatly let-us-honor-it their-way-of-life our-deceased-grandfathers

My people, let us help one another.
Ndellennapewak, witahenditamook.
My-Delaware-Indians, let-us-help-one-another.

Let us help one another according to the Creator's intention for putting us on this earth / Let us help one another the way our Creator has placed us here upon the earth.
Witahenditamook Gischelemellenk elelemukquenk enda hallatup nhakeyina hakink / Witahenditamook eli hallatup nhakeyina ju wochgidhakamike.
Let-us-help-one-another our-Creator the-way-He-allows-(for)-us when He-placed-them ourselves on-the-Earth / Let-us-help-one-another the-way He-placed-them ourselves here upon-the-Earth.

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#5 Jun-01-2018 04:41:pm

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Awesome! Thanks so much - I'm going to try and work through the grammar and for the lines that have a few possibilities, see which fits the music the best.

Will try and come up with the SU version of this as well.

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#6 Jun-04-2018 08:58:am

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

So I tried to come up with a SU version, but not sure if some of the NU grammar forms are the same in SU.

Here's my attempt:

Maxelëmatämukw ntëlawxsδwakänëna

Ntëlënapeyok maèhëtämukw

Maxelëmatämukw wdelawsëakänowak

Ntëlënapeyok wichëntitämukw

Wichëntitämukw èli yu hòking.


The NU that fit the song best was:

Machelematamook ndellauchsowoaganenna

Ndellenapewak mawewittamook

Machelematamook wdellauchsowoaganowek

Ndellanapewak witahenditamook

Witahenditamook eli hallatup nhakeyina ju hakink.


For the underlined word, I am hoping maybe something like "old ways", or "(old ) traditions" or even "our (old) traditions" might work, but I can't find a translation for either term. There's also a few words missing in the last line of the SU as I have not been able to find the corresponding forms.

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#7 Jun-04-2018 11:03:am

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Use ä for the short a.  I changed yours to that, in your post.  My comments are in bold type, below.

Kavik wrote:

So I tried to come up with a SU version, but not sure if some of the NU grammar forms are the same in SU.

Here's my attempt:

Maxelëmatämukw ntëlawxsδwakänëna  [ntëlawsëwakänëna]

Ntëlënapeyok maèhëtämukw  [maèhëlatämukw]

Maxelëmatämukw wdelawsëakänowak  [wdelawsëwakänëwo – mine should have been wdellauchsowoaganuwa]

Ntëlënapeyok wichëntitämukw 

Wichëntitämukw èli yu hòking.  [should be "yu hakink" (‘here on Earth’), but èli doesn’t work here.  I’d abandon “eli yu hakink" and use “xkwithakamika" (‘on the Earth’)]


The NU that fit the song best was:

Machelematamook ndellauchsowoaganenna

Ndellenapewak mawewittamook

Machelematamook wdellauchsowoaganowek  [should end in -uwa, as above]

Ndellanapewak witahenditamook

Witahenditamook eli hallatup nhakeyina ju hakink.


For the underlined word, I am hoping maybe something like "old ways", or "(old ) traditions" or even "our (old) traditions" might work, but I can't find a translation for either term.  [For “our traditions" you might be able to use “elilenijenk" (‘as we customarily do’ or ‘what we do, customarily’ – more freely, ‘as is our custom’)]  There's also a few words missing in the last line of the SU as I have not been able to find the corresponding forms.  Which words?

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#8 Jun-04-2018 11:55:am

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Thanks very much for the corrections.

For the form "wdelawsëwakänëwo", rather than "their way of life" what would be "our way of life"?

In looking at the alternate word "elilenijenk" it just doesn't fit the music; I'll have to go with "our way of life".


The words missing below for SU were the NU "hallatup nhhakeyina"

I'm going to try and make the word wochgidhakamike / xkwithakamika work as it is actually close to the Abenaki "wskitkamigwak" and may fit the music better.

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#9 Jun-04-2018 12:02:pm

Kavik
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Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

For "our way of life" (SU) something like "ktëlawsëwakânëna" ??

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#10 Jun-04-2018 12:41:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Kavik wrote:

For "our way of life" (SU) something like "ktëlawsëwakânëna" ??

I would use the exclusive form beginning with n instead of k.  (I see you've decided to use the circumflex accent instead of the umlaut over a.  I didn't suggest that because I use it for a long vowel, but it doesn't matter.)

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#11 Jun-04-2018 12:57:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Kavik wrote:

For the form "wdelawswakânëwo", rather than "their way of life" what would be "our way of life"?

"ntelawsëwakânëna"

The words missing below for SU were the NU "hallatup nhhakeyina"

hëlat hnakayëna

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#12 Jun-04-2018 01:02:pm

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

OK - that makes sense.

Oops - typo; meant to use the ä.

Is there a SU equivalent of NU "hallatup nhakeyina"? If so, would it work in a construction like:

Wichënititämukw èli "hallatup nhakeyina" xkwithakamike

Thanks again

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#13 Jun-04-2018 01:03:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

See the post above yours.  We were posting almost simultaneously.

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#14 Jun-04-2018 01:03:pm

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Helps if I read your entire post!


Just saw it, but will it work in the construction I have above?

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#15 Jun-04-2018 01:05:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Yes.  If you put it between your original "eli" and "yu hakink."  (Make sure that's "hakink.')

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#16 Jun-04-2018 01:06:pm

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Is the SU form "NHakeyina" or HNakeyina"??

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#17 Jun-04-2018 01:07:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Jesus!  Your "eli" must change to "enda," as in my sentence, above.

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#18 Jun-04-2018 01:09:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Kavik wrote:

Is the SU form "NHakeyina" or HNakeyina"??

HNakeyëna.  (It's actually either one, but the Lenape Talking Dictionary always hears it as HN-.)

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#19 Jun-04-2018 01:14:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

I was getting a bit confused between your forms and mine.  lol

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#20 Jun-04-2018 02:01:pm

sschkaak
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

sschkaak wrote:

Kavik wrote:

For the form "wdelawswakânëwo", rather than "their way of life" what would be "our way of life"?

"ntelawsëwakânëna"

The words missing below for SU were the NU "hallatup nhhakeyina"

hëlat hnakayëna

Make that "halat."  You could say, "enta halat hnakayëna" or just "ahëlate hnakayëna," without the "enta."  Same number of syllables either way.

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#21 Jun-04-2018 02:48:pm

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Cool - the 'ahëlate hnakayëna' works a bit better with the music.

Could one say "enda ahëlate hnakayëna xkwithakamika", or does that just not work and "yu haking" makes more sense grammatically/stylistically?

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#22 Jun-04-2018 03:13:pm

sschkaak
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Registered: Sep-17-2007
Posts: 4293
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Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Kavik wrote:

Cool - the 'ahëlate hnakayëna' works a bit better with the music.

Could one say "enda ahëlate hnakayëna xkwithakamika", or does that just not work and "yu haking" makes more sense grammatically/stylistically?

You can't really use "enta" (that's the SU spelling) with "ahëlate."  Both "enta halat" and "ahëlate" mean 'when he placed them.'  You can use "yu hakink" (the SU spelling) or "xkwithakamika" after either one.  It's your choice.

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#23 Jun-04-2018 03:55:pm

Kavik
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Registered: Jul-15-2014
Posts: 112

Re: Short Honor Song Translation Help

Ah, okay - got it now.

Thanks!

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