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#226 Jun-07-2018 06:52:am

sschkaak
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

johnb wrote:

In Lesson 14, Part 2 you discuss the Conjunct Order and how the meanings of the two "changed" modes can be altered by particular preverbs.

You give the following example

1. "enda milite" -- 'when he gave it to me'
2. "metschi milite" -- 'after he gives it to me'

Verb: "milit" - "he who gives to me"

Actually, "he who gives something to me" or "he who gives someone to me"  This is a TA+O verb.  That is, a verb with two objects.

I understand "milite" as the Changed Conjunct Order in the Subjunctive Mode, so Example 2. makes sense.

I'm not sure I follow Example 1. "When he gave it to me" seems like it should be in the preterite? I thought it would be something like "enda militipanne"?

It would be "enda militpanne."  However, remember that "milite" is in the UNSPECIFIED TENSE--not the present tense; so, it can be used for any tense (past, imperfect, present or future).  See Lesson 6, Part 2.  I guess I should have rendered this in the English present tense, just to distinguish it from the specific Delaware past tense, as I did in the rest of the lessons, but it's not necessarily wrong--just unconventional for these lessons.

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#227 Jun-07-2018 11:05:pm

johnb
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

However, remember that "milite" is in the UNSPECIFIED TENSE--not the present tense; so, it can be used for any tense (past, imperfect, present or future).  See Lesson 6, Part 2.

Ah...yes! The Unspecified tense is NOT the present tense - even though you use it for present tense examples in the lessons.

Tonight I have a question that I hope is considered part of syntax and sentence construction. It is very common in English (and other European languages) to have verb constructions with auxiliary verbs like "I can run," "I should eat," "You must sleep," etc.

Lesson 4 on Particles refers to a set called "Possibility"

a or aam ['could' / 'should' / 'would']; eet or piteet ['maybe' / 'perhaps']; gachene ['if' / 'whether'].

Is there a particle for "must"? Basically, a particle or pre-verb that communicates a strong obligation, or is that covered by "a" or "amm" - "should"?

Can you briefly comment on syntax with these particles and/or auxiliary verb construction using an example sentence?

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#228 Jun-08-2018 04:37:am

sschkaak
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

The preverb, “aski," means ‘must.’  So, “ktaski gauwi" = ‘you must sleep.’

The preverb, “kaski," means ‘can’ or ‘able to.’  So, “ngaski kschamehella" = ‘I can run’ or ‘I am able to run.’

The particle, “a" or “aam," means ‘could,’ ‘should’ or ‘would.’  So, “nmizi  a" or “a nmizi" = ‘I should eat.’

(“aam" is somewhat archaic and is used less frequently)

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#229 Jun-12-2018 01:30:am

johnb
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

Although the examples of TA, TI, and AI+O verb conjugations in the lessons consistently use people (or an inanimate) in both subjects and object position (I (verb) you, You (verb) me, she (verb) he, we (verb) them, it (verb) her, etc.), the general logic of other things as objects should hold, I presume?

I want to try out two examples. One tonight, one tomorrow. Please correct any errors or feel free to elaborate on notable points.

1. A simple sentence like "I saw a beaver" or "I saw the beavers"

"Nemen" - to see
"Ktemaque" - beaver

I think this will be a Transitive Animate verb conjugation of Theme 1 because the beaver is a third-person object. I don't believe the word order should matter. I believe I need to mark "a beaver" or "the beavers" as an obviative, correct? I would have to figure out which one is singular and which is plural from the verb construction?

Ktemaquewall nemennap ?

Ktemaquewall nemennapannik ?

Thanks.

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#230 Jun-12-2018 06:13:am

sschkaak
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

You have to use a TA verb.  "nemen" is a TI verb.  So, 'I see a beaver' is "newa ktemaque."  (Literally, 'I-see-him a-beaver.'  Or, 'I-see-her a-beaver.')  You could also say, "ktemaque newa," since no rule on syntax applies, here.  The object, 'beaver,' is not obviative because the subject, "I," is not 3rd person.  There must be two animate 3rd persons in a verb for one of them to be marked as obviative.  Thus, "wunewawall ktemaquewall" is 'he saw a beaver.'  Or, 'she saw a beaver.'

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#231 Jun-13-2018 12:32:am

johnb
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

I now understand that there can be verbs within each of the four categories (TA, TI, AI, II) with similar actions (e.g. to see or to eat). I presume you are referencing a TA verb stem like "new-" as part of a form like "newen - to see (something)"? What dictionary are you pulling the verb "to see" from? Should I not use the online Moravian dictionary anymore?

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#232 Jun-13-2018 12:54:am

johnb
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

Ps. Putting the sentence in the past

1. "I saw the beaver" - "ktemaque newap"
2. "I saw the beavers" - "ktemaquewak newapannik"

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#233 Jun-13-2018 08:10:am

sschkaak
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

johnb wrote:

I now understand that there can be verbs within each of the four categories (TA, TI, AI, II) with similar actions (e.g. to see or to eat). I presume you are referencing a TA verb stem like "new-" as part of a form like "newen - to see (something)"?

Yes.  Actually, "newan" = 'to see someone.'  For a few examples comparing TA and TI forms of some verbs see Goddard's Chapter 4.32 (the last page of Chapter 4).

What dictionary are you pulling the verb "to see" from?

I have many Moravian vocabularies from which to draw, but immersing myself in narrative texts has been my chief learning strategy.  You cite the TA verb, 'to see.'  There are numerous forms of this verb in The Gospel of John, for instance.  See John 1:29, 1:38, 1:42, 1:47, 5:6, 5:19; 6:5, 6:36, 6:62, 14:7, 16:22, 20:18, 20:29, 21:20 and 21:21.  And, this is just a partial list. 

Should I not use the online Moravian dictionary anymore?

All the words in this dictionary and other vocabularies are good Delaware words, but none of these sources are unabridged and cannot be used in isolation from one another, or from grammatical works and narrative texts, to learn everything you want to learn.

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#234 Jun-13-2018 08:37:am

sschkaak
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

johnb wrote:

Ps. Putting the sentence in the past

1. "I saw the beaver" - "ktemaque newap"
2. "I saw the beavers" - "ktemaquewak newapannik"

Correct.  "newahump" is an alternative for the first one, but "newap" is good, too.

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#235 Jun-14-2018 12:23:am

johnb
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

For other language learners visiting the forum, further discussion of the difference between TA and TI stems can be found in John O'Meara's Delaware Stem Morphology Section 2.1, complete with the TI "nem-" vs. TA "new-" stem examples. (In Munsee Delaware the stems are "neem-" and "neew-")

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#236 Jun-16-2018 01:34:am

johnb
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

Grammar question. I'm having some trouble following what I think should be a simple conjugation.

This is the sentence (Verse 10 in Gospel of John)

Necama panep enda nihillatank, schuk nihillalatschil taku wunatenukguwiwall.

nihillatank -- which you've translated "he-owned-them"

I'm seeing the verb "nihillatamen, to own, to be master of" and "enda" indicates this should be a conjunct order. I think it should be a TA Theme 1 conjugation, but I'm not seeing the preterite tense or the third person singular (he) conjugation.

I would have expected something something closer to "nihillatatitup"?

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#237 Jun-16-2018 01:38:am

johnb
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

Sorry, not the third person plural suffix I was using.

More like "nihillatattup" for "he-owned-them"

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#238 Jun-16-2018 05:37:am

sschkaak
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Re: Delaware (Northern Unami) Language Lessons

My translation isn't clear because I didn't mark "them" as inanimate.  I rarely do in translations of narrative texts because readers are usually at the point where they can identify parts-of-speech by the time they get to the texts.  I should have made a better translation, such as "where he-owned-things" or "where he-owns-things."  (Tense is a choice, here, since "nihillatank" is in the Unspecified Tense.)  This is a TI verb.  In Lesson 13, Part 3, I'll change the exemplar form, "mikindam," from the absolute to the objective state, "mikindamen," to help make this 3rd person form a little clearer.

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